Sue Wallace-Shaddad and Sula Rubens first met in 2019 and connected over their shared interest in the concepts of kinship and displacement. During the pandemic that connection grew and the two began to collaborate as Wallace-Shaddad’s interest in ekphrasis inspired her to respond to Rubens’ paintings with poetry. This collaboration ultimately led to the publication of Sleeping Under Clouds (Clayhanger Press) in April of this year.
‘Rising’ a poem from this collection (and mentioned under Question 4 below) is published with its corresponding image Kin – Boy carrying Young Child on our Word & Image pages here.
1. When did you begin writing poems/ creating artworks that addressed the refugee situation and the notion of Refuge? What was the initial impetus?
Sue: I had an interest in this topic from work I did in my international career with the British Council. I had written a few poems about Refuge in various workshops, particularly in one run by Marjorie Lotfi at StAnza poetry festival. However, the trigger for writing a substantial set of poems was seeing the work of artist Sula Rubens RWS. whom I met in 2019.
Sula: My series of paintings and drawings with the working title ‘Kin’ had been on my mind for some time. I watched the Arab Spring unfold from afar. My catalyst for the series was a self portrait I made in early 2017. It was selected for the Exhibition of the Ruth Borchard Self Portrait Prize. Beginning as a self portrait, the figure evolved into a portrayal of ‘every woman’ holding a child. Its title evolved as, Protecting, till the danger past, with human love. (from ‘A Prayer for my Son’ by W.B. Yeats).
The subsequent paintings and drawings are about the current displacement of many people and the sadness of being away from one’s country and former security. The struggle to survive and protect one’s kin is universal.
2. Can you define your own form(s) of poetry /art and yourself as a poet / artist? How did you approach your work in this field? Does it differ from how you write or create art around other subjects?
Sue: I have described myself in the past as a poet ‘painting with words’, a cliché perhaps but it reflects my interest in ekphrasis and the fact that my poems can be very visual. I like to pick out details from a painting and stay quite close to the work but add my own interpretation. My style of writing is compact whatever topic I write about. I respond to the moment, or an image and write poems which distil my thinking and emotions. This comes about naturally; it seems to be how my mind internalises and then responds.
Sula: As an artist, I have often travelled to paint, immersing myself in various landscapes, buildings and their people. Wherever I am and whatever the subject, close observation through drawing is integral to my work. I tend to work in series that develop from my initial response to circumstances I encounter.
The primary focus of ‘Kin’ is people. Although there is no direct reference in these works to current issues of the displacement and suffering of refugees, some of the people I paint are displaced, struggling to survive and protect their kin. Some are also tending animals, sleeping, laughing or playing as people do wherever they happen to be.
The people are transient figures moving through spaces I create for them on canvas, maps or book pages. In some works, sky, land, sea, maps or buildings show through their painted and drawn forms. I portray them outside, vulnerable to the sea and the sky and sometimes with mountains in the distance, carrying a sense of the distant lands from which they might have travelled. There are moments of fun and pathos: children with their animals or playing despite desperate circumstances; and above all people caring for each other, recognising their kinship in adversity.
3. Have any other poets’/artists’ works been influential to your own practice? Have political figures or campaigners inspired you?
Sue: I have always had an interest in how poets address their heritage and culture. Early influences were Imtiaz Dharkar and Mimi Khalvati. Studying for an MA with the Poetry School brought me into contact with US poets such as Terrance Hayes and Claudia Rankine, and of course my course tutors Tamar Yoseloff and Glyn Maxwell (and their poetry) also had an impact on how I developed my practice. I have not been specifically influenced by political figures and campaigners.
Sula: I have learned from so many artists, musicians and poets throughout history to the present day – too many to mention. The most essential thing for me about a good piece of art is that it matters. It can be a thousand years old or made yesterday. It needs to have mattered to the artist so that it can have an impact on the viewer/listener/reader in some way.
While I was working on the ‘Kin’ series, I saw a marvellous play at the Royal Court in December 2017, by Syrian poet and playwright Liwaa Yazji. It was called Goats. It dealt with the both horrific and ridiculous aspects of the civil war in Syria and was based on a true story. In a remote village, the authorities had decided to ‘compensate’ the families whose teenage sons were coming home as ‘martyrs’ in coffins. For each son lost, families received a goat. Some received several goats. The play began with this premise and the plot was suffused with many nuances and a grim gallows humour. On entering the auditorium, the ushers warned, ‘There is smoking on stage. There is bad language on stage and there are live goats.’ The effect of the live goats coming on stage partway through the play, helped everyone cope with the ghastliness. After that, in my studio, goats began to appear in my work when they were needed!
I wrote to Liwaa Yazji and we are still in touch.
4. How personal is the notion of Refuge to you?
Sue: The flow of peoples across borders is age-old but I was especially moved by news coverage of Syrian refugees and others crossing Europe in 2015. The poem ‘Rising’ reflects that time but is also very resonant today. Also, I have Sudanese family and the people of that country have suffered a great deal over many years, economically, politically and socially. The country is currently being torn apart by a power struggle which is causing waves of refugees. When my own family members had to escape in June 2023, it brought home to me how thin the wall is between security and chaos; sadly, anyone can find themselves having to seek refuge.
5. Do you acknowledge your own privilege in your work and, if so, how?.
Sue: When I was reviewing poems to go into Sleeping Under Clouds, I was conscious that I might be criticised for writing about a topic that I had not directly lived myself so I wrote an extra poem ‘Questions’ to address this which includes the lines:
If I were given no choice,
caught in the thread of fate,
how would I react?
In another poem, ‘Keeping Going’, I write about the gap in experience and acknowledge ‘their footsteps / carry me into their world’.
Sula: In these paintings and drawings I focus on the many currently displaced people, whose lives may seem to us so remote that we cannot engage with their sufferings. These people are our kin: we are all part of humankind.
If you ask displaced adults what they do, they will respond by telling you that they are an engineer/farmer/architect/ teacher or whatever it is they did in their own land before there was no choice but to leave. They tend not to identify as a migrant or refugee. Children will speak about their lives and aspirations. They play games in a camp as they did in their own street.
Living and building a life in one place is a rare privilege. My maternal great grandmother walked from East Prussia to Germany probably to get away from the Russians. One generation later my paternal grandfather left Vilnius in Lithuania for a similar reason.
6. How did you first come across each other’s work and what drew you to it?
Sue: I met Sula at one of Caroline Wiseman’s Aldeburgh events in late 2019. We enjoyed talking to each other and she subsequently sent me the catalogue for her exhibition ‘Kin’, I was strongly drawn to the powerful, direct nature of her paintings, which inspired an almost visceral reaction in me. I felt they had great emotional depth.
7. How did Sleeping Under Clouds evolve from this synergy?
Sue: When the catalogue arrived through the post, it was in an envelope almost fully covered by the drawing of a goat. I wrote a poem about that which I sent to Sula suggesting we might start a collaboration. She liked the poem and agreed. Our collaboration took place over the pandemic so we exchanged images and text by email, with my editing the poems after discussion with Sula. She also included some poems in an exhibition of her work which helped us move towards thinking about a publication once I had written enough poems. Sula has always been very supportive of my poetry, giving permission for her images to be used in any publication.
Sula: I would add that Sue’s poems about my paintings can be a ‘way in’ to the work. She often perceives aspects and brings attention to important details in the images.
During our collaboration, we would discuss the background of the paintings which sometimes altered her initial perception. It was a fascinating process.
8. Who is your audience and how would you like them to respond to your work? Do you feel that your work can have a positive, real-life influence on people’s behaviour?
Sue: I have not written with a specific audience in mind but it has been interesting to see that this can encompass both adults and children. I am working for the first time with a local school which has a year 6 class studying migration and conflict. I feel my poems and Sula’s work are unusual in that they tackle issues about Refuge from the point of view of children, without being specific about countries or conflict. My poems have the power to make readers and viewers, of whatever age, think more about the impact of these life-changing movements of peoples.
Sula: My work is accessible to all. The subject of ‘Kin’ is a universal one.
Where do you go next regarding this subject?
Sue: My next pamphlet, ‘Once There Was Colour’, will come out in September 2024 with Palewell Press. The poems are about the current crisis in Sudan and the flight of members of my family to safety.
Last Flight Out
29 April 2023, Wadi Seidna airport
I never expected to see someone I knew
strapped into a cargo bay, her son’s
chubby legs kicking on her lap.
The headline photo in my Sunday papers
captured the flight of the few, witness
to the country’s sudden decline.
Later she told me about how she got a driver
to take her to the airport, that plane,
those kilometres of hell.
Queuing for hours in dire heat, water scarce,
the flight uncertain. Somehow it was agreed.
One day she’ll tell her son about their escape.
I revisit that image from time to time, shocked
by how quickly a situation can change,
people leaving, their future unknown.
from ‘Once There Was Colour’
Though not intentional as such, there are clearly connections between the three pamphlets I have written and I hope to explore further ways I can collaborate with others on the topic of Refuge. This might be with the refugee community or working with more schools for example. I am also interested in running poetry workshops around the idea of Refuge or Place. Finally, it would be exciting to develop some international links.
Sula: As I paint, themes develop and each painting gives a reason for the next to come into being.
Sue Wallace-Shaddad’s pamphlet with artist Sula Rubens, on a refugee theme, Sleeping Under Clouds was published by Clayhanger Press April 2023. In 2020, Dempsey and Windle published ‘A City Waking Up’, a pamphlet of poems about Sudan. https://suewallaceshaddad.wordpress.com
Since graduating from Central/St. Martin’s School of Art in 1989, Sula Rubens RWS has practised as a painter and printmaker. She has lived, worked and exhibited in many countries, sometimes collaborating with artists, poets and musicians nationally and internationally. http://www.sularubens.com